i cannot believe how amazing this game is. i was only planning on playing for an hour or so but i ended up binging the entire thing in one sitting, planning on buying the dlcs and playing it AGAIN tomorrow. im not exaggerating when i say this just became my favorite VN ever. the art, the music, the characters (especially cove), everything about it is just perfect. thank you devs, you made a fantastic game for all of us to enjoy :)
well i will play the game but im probably gonna end up skipping most of the stuff
i have no intention or interest of pursuing Male LI for Female Protagonist
i was hoping they would Have Added Female LI for Female and Male Protagonist as a DLC Like Cousin Lee For example Now that would be something or add the option to turn Cove into a Girl but oh well it is what it is
What is the point of your comment exactly? Please explain because I really would love to know.
If you don’t like the game then delete it and move on with your life. Commenting something stupid like this is completely unnecessary.
And the fact that you’re saying you want INCEST is disgusting. MC being adopted or not it’s still incest because they were adopted into the family. Please seek out therapy or something. Now I’m kind of worried about the cousins you have too.
I hope you mean dlc as in you play as different mc and NOT our life MC and where their relationship is NOT cousin or any of family member. I surely hope is that what you mean lol... 😅
This game is PHENOMENAL I haven't played it entirely through yet but I had to leave a comment about how great it is! I'm aroace and it even makes me swoon! The LGBTQ+ inclusion is also absolutely fantastic! I cannot go into enough detail about how cute, funny, and amazing the game, characters, and music is! Even the UI is awesome! I bought all of the DLCs (which I rarelt do for games) because it's so good! 10/10 <3
I made an account just to make a comment on how much I ADORE COVE HOLDEN AND THE GAME!!! I've tried so many games as visual-novels but none as interesting, adorable and touched my heart so many times like this!! I re-played this game all over, bought DLC's and saving extra cash to buy the rest and Patreon. I'm so excited and looking forward for Step 4 and its DLC!! AND IT'S FREE ON STEP 4?? I just love you so much- adopt me pls!!!
Hi!! I cant get the DLCs to work in my tablet. I have bought the dlcs through stream. And I also just bought them through her for my tablet. And they are just locked. I download the base game plus dlc. Install them. And it says it will update the game. Everything goes through but the game is just not unlocking the dlcs
I'm sorry they're not registering! Can you let me know what tablet you have? And can you install things one at a time instead of downloading all then installing?
Been waiting for part 4 since 2020 <3 Still waiting and I come on and check every couple of months to see if its been released yet!!! :3 I can’t wait any longerrrrrr.
THIS IS SO GOOD I HATE IT. I've been unable to focus on work for the past week because ALL I CAN THINK ABOUT IS GODDAMN COVE. I kindly ask the owner to delete this from the internet. >:( /s
Jokes aside, I really loved it and can't wait for step 4. One of the best I ever played. The story reaaallly spoke to me and I cared and cried more than I'd like to admit.
It's very inclusive in ways I had never seen, and the player has many many choices along the way. I can't think of a time that I'd like to chose something but couldn't.
Things I'd change/add: (1) an option to have some kind of visual/sprite for the PC, the little doll doesn't cut it for me, but I can see how some would prefer it that way; (2) an option to play the moments from previous steps; (3) the tutorial is really... wordy. too much text and the font doesn't help.
I really appreciated the choices about what to eat and buy. Mundane is fun, and my child self is really happy to be able to make choices they didn't get to.
It's also kinda therapeutic NOT having to make choices just to get a certain ending. I have a bad addiction to collecting endings, making choices I otherwise wouldn't, or thinking there's a "right" answer, so it's nice that there's no bad ending here. Sets the bar, honestly. I've played a lot of otoge and let's just say they kinda have a tendency to prime you for mind-reading and people-pleasing haha.
I guess the only things I have mixed feelings about are (spoiler) somebodyxbeingxfromxaxcertainxcountryx cuz it felt thrown out of nowhere...which, I guess, helped me feel even a fraction of that somebody's shock. I don't think that specific country (I'm from there btw) had to have foreshadowing. It's just something I'm used to.
The other thing is being asked about our character's body type, but I guess it could be more of a discomfort thing than being something bad. Plus, I'll admit I sometimes play for wish fulfillment, so there's that. Haha.
For the characters: Cove is adorable, I hope Derek has a happy life, and Baxter has a charm to him. I'd love a sister like Elizabeth and a neighbor like Mr. Holden.
The family dynamics are great. We may not know much about their lives outside of their interactions with the MCs (which would involve a lot more of writing and coding and art) but they already feel like 3D characters to me through the interactions.
Pretty cool to see familiar faces from your other game (spoiler). Xxxxxx is such a baby and I'm still as confused about him as before, but I do hope he lives a good life...which is another thing that's therapeutic about the game.
Meetings and partings and all sorts of valid ways to show affection and consent and ways to spend time by yourself or with other people. People pretty much have their own lives. It's great~ Finished 1st playthrough in 12 hours
Hi again. Just dropping by with a fan drawing I made :D Kyra, Cliff (background), and a character from another visual novel.
I made this sketch because I got "mom vibes" from both Delora and Kyra.
I grew fond of Mr. Holden as well, so even though I wanted to focus on the two, I decided to include him in the background, waving innocently. The fan story behind this is that Delora is frustrated that she lost in a card game.
(Drew another one recreating that scene where Jeremy picks on Cove's eyebrows, but it's not as pretty and I can't upload more than one image for some reason. Anyway~)
I usually don't review games but this is something I've never seen before. It's amazing and it sets the bar for any visual novels I read in the future. I finished it in 4 days and I'm feeling content hungry for the DLCs that I'm hoping I can buy sometime soon. I'm excited to see what GBPatch does in the future, because I could splurge my money all day with this type of content lol. Great game.
FDSJKGHSDGKDS THIS IS THE BEST visual novel I've ever played it has SUCH a special place in my heart :( I started playing back in 2019 and I've loved it ever since. it gives me great nostalgia and fills me with the best feelings :) everything about this is so perfect, thank you for sharing this amazing piece of art with us!
Can relate. The first visual novel I ever played was from 2017 and nothing ever replaced it (several routes, some locked, with changes in dialogues and events and even POV). But I still think Our Life tops it. Most games I'll admit are escapism to me (nothing wrong with escapism though) but Our Life made me appreciate real life and its uncertainties and changes more, if that makes sense. I still miss 2D characters after playing, but I don't feel so alone or dumped back in the real world now. Hahahaha.
Why is Cove's gender not something changeable? It seems odd to me that, a game touting such immense customizability with such an androgynous love interest (I looked at all the preview pictures here and didn't know he was a guy until the tutorial said it outright) would fail in a way many much lesser games have succeeded in
I hope this doesn't sound rude, but the point of Our Life is to let the player feel supported in their own choices/identities. That's what the customization is for. It'd really undercut the message that gender expression/sex is an important thing and we care about your experience with that if we also included the option to give boobs to the love interest somehow because it's just a game and who cares about gender presentation having to make sense. Cove only changes in small ways that are reasonable based on all the different possible experiences he can have growing up over many years. I totally get other games that do let you change the love interest in that way because the goal is more about players getting to date the kind of person they want. But OL isn't focused on that, it's purpose is players getting to be truly themselves in a world that's consistent and treats things in a generally grounded way. I hope that makes sense.
Oh yeah, it's not rude at all, it's more my bad than anything. I should've worded my comment a bit better because it was just meant as a question out of genuine curiosity, it doesn't bother me. I suppose it's just something I won't get as a straight and cis guy because to me it feels more accepting and more supportive of the message to have everything work out regardless of Cove's gender and that it would help people connect more with the game if they got to date within their preferences, but I digress. The game is still really great and I'm having a great time with it! It's much better than a decent amount of Otome games I've played and it thoroughly trounces almost every other non-Otome (is there a word for that?) VN I've plain
Thanks for understanding and the kind words! If it helps, Our Life is gonna be a series with future games having other gender LIs. We wanted to keep this first project focused on the one main love interest but eventually there will be an "Our Life" experience hopefully for everyone because it's true that having the option to date within your gender preference is very important. We've got a preview page up for next OL HERE. And a demo is gonna be out for it later this year.
I'm sorry for the confusion, you do need the not-currently-released Baxter DLC in order to date him. The events included in the base version are Cove's story and Baxter is only a side character in all of them.
This is the best visual novel game I've ever played, it is so good and sets the bar way too high, like how should I play anything else after this one and not think about it and be satisfied with anything else? Impossible
This game has ruined visual novels and dating sims for me. It sets the bar way to high, and instead of toning things down, the devs keep making it better?! It's frankly pretty rude.
I love the game, it is so well written and the characters are so amazing. I like each of them. And I'm sooo hyped on step 4 and the DLCs for Derek and Baxter romances. I really love Baxter, I hope his DLC has a lot of content. ;)
Great game at first, but then I learned Cove is the only romance option, and the first part made me dislike him pretty strongly, so I stopped playing halfway into part 2. It feels weird being able to change so much about my character but so little about who they interact with.
Yeah, Cove is the only romance option so far, but if you wait than after the step 4 comes out, a two new romance options will also come out but as DLCs. So, please don't give up on the game yet, you don't have to even have Cove as a romance option, your MC and Cove can always be friends - that's a option too. But if you really dislike the game, I can't force you to play it.
hey GB something odd happened I had started up the game then out of no where it kicked out so I got to my file folder and discover that I guess the game files changed/corrupted or something
Do you know what caused this and if there's a way to reverse it or do i just have to download everything again
I'm sorry you're having issues! It's possible your computer removed or quarantined the OurLife.exe. Sometimes Python (the programming language we use) games get false flagged as dangerous and the computer can just delete it/make it inaccessible. Seeing if you can make the program a trusted file or redownloading the build could help. Your save files should still be there once things are working again.
this game was amazing!! i blew right through it and the development between the mc and cove is so beautiful and sweet, not to mention the art and the soundtrack are both spectacular!! it is genuinely shocking to me how it is FREE for anyone to play LMAO i am PUMPED for all the new DLCs tho keep it up guys!!
In Our life:beginnings and always you can not. There are only three characters that MC can fall in love with and those are all male. But the GBpatch team is working on a second Our life game in which there will be a female character that MC can fall for. If you go to their page to see their other games, you can easily find it, but not even the demo is out yet.
This is honestly the best game I've played so far. I really liked both the storyline and the style, there was moments where it made me cry,but holy sh*. Really enjoyed it and can't wait for step 4 :D<3 !!
1-3 is where you tell Cove about the $20 his dad offered to pay you in Step 1, In the episode where you Cove and Shiloh are building sandcastles. I think 2-3 is the same thing, but in Step 2. Basically, choosing to tell Cove about the $20 in...I think it's the Dinner episode?
If you tell him in one Step, you don't get the option again later, obviously. So, I'd recommend making a save before telling him in Step 1, then once you've got the scene and the CG, loading that save and not telling him, then tell him later in Step 2.
Anyway, you don't have to stress too much if you were worried about the outcome of telling him earlier. I won't spoil but, if you need assurance, it all turns okay, even if it doesn't seem start that way :)
um im not sure why this keeps happening to me but in step 2 when they ask what instrument you play and you get to type your own instrument, when you choose one instrument from the list but also type your own instrument in it just shows that you play the instrument from the list twice.
Ok uhm, I downloaded this game at 1am and I've been playing for over 6 hours. This is the best sim game I've ever played and all the scenarios and the little details are just perfect. I really thank the creators 'cause they couldn't do a better job than this: it's just the best.
I made a mistake,, I bought all DLCs through stream so I bought it again here but when playing OF here, all my saves from steam came here.. does that mean I bought all the DLC twice?? T.T
I'm sorry for that! Can you try to get a refund on Steam? The info is saved on your computer, so playing the Steam or Itch version will have the same saves.
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i cannot believe how amazing this game is. i was only planning on playing for an hour or so but i ended up binging the entire thing in one sitting, planning on buying the dlcs and playing it AGAIN tomorrow. im not exaggerating when i say this just became my favorite VN ever. the art, the music, the characters (especially cove), everything about it is just perfect. thank you devs, you made a fantastic game for all of us to enjoy :)
well i will play the game but im probably gonna end up skipping most of the stuff
i have no intention or interest of pursuing Male LI for Female Protagonist
i was hoping they would Have Added Female LI for Female and Male Protagonist as a DLC Like Cousin Lee For example Now that would be something or add the option to turn Cove into a Girl but oh well it is what it is
What is the point of your comment exactly? Please explain because I really would love to know.
If you don’t like the game then delete it and move on with your life. Commenting something stupid like this is completely unnecessary.
And the fact that you’re saying you want INCEST is disgusting. MC being adopted or not it’s still incest because they were adopted into the family. Please seek out therapy or something. Now I’m kind of worried about the cousins you have too.
I hope you mean dlc as in you play as different mc and NOT our life MC and where their relationship is NOT cousin or any of family member. I surely hope is that what you mean lol... 😅
The protag does not have to be female. This comment is confusing
i want a cove for myself
Me too!!! Why isn't he real?? 😣😣
This game is PHENOMENAL I haven't played it entirely through yet but I had to leave a comment about how great it is! I'm aroace and it even makes me swoon! The LGBTQ+ inclusion is also absolutely fantastic! I cannot go into enough detail about how cute, funny, and amazing the game, characters, and music is! Even the UI is awesome! I bought all of the DLCs (which I rarelt do for games) because it's so good! 10/10 <3
I made an account just to make a comment on how much I ADORE COVE HOLDEN AND THE GAME!!! I've tried so many games as visual-novels but none as interesting, adorable and touched my heart so many times like this!! I re-played this game all over, bought DLC's and saving extra cash to buy the rest and Patreon. I'm so excited and looking forward for Step 4 and its DLC!! AND IT'S FREE ON STEP 4?? I just love you so much- adopt me pls!!!
Oh man, this is a pretty impressive visual novel! Will have to try more
DLC...
(edit: learning to spell, I guess)
Hi!! I cant get the DLCs to work in my tablet. I have bought the dlcs through stream. And I also just bought them through her for my tablet. And they are just locked. I download the base game plus dlc. Install them. And it says it will update the game. Everything goes through but the game is just not unlocking the dlcs
I bought the dlcs here as well. So I bought it twice. One for my pc and one for my tablet.
I'm sorry they're not registering! Can you let me know what tablet you have? And can you install things one at a time instead of downloading all then installing?
is it work in PC 32 bit
please i need answer because i love this game
It should. Are you having a problem with the build?
yep
What is it?
Been waiting for part 4 since 2020 <3 Still waiting and I come on and check every couple of months to see if its been released yet!!! :3 I can’t wait any longerrrrrr.
same
THIS IS SO GOOD I HATE IT. I've been unable to focus on work for the past week because ALL I CAN THINK ABOUT IS GODDAMN COVE. I kindly ask the owner to delete this from the internet. >:(
/s
Jokes aside, I really loved it and can't wait for step 4. One of the best I ever played. The story reaaallly spoke to me and I cared and cried more than I'd like to admit.
It's very inclusive in ways I had never seen, and the player has many many choices along the way. I can't think of a time that I'd like to chose something but couldn't.
Things I'd change/add: (1) an option to have some kind of visual/sprite for the PC, the little doll doesn't cut it for me, but I can see how some would prefer it that way; (2) an option to play the moments from previous steps; (3) the tutorial is really... wordy. too much text and the font doesn't help.
Patiently waiting for Step 4. I love this game to death. I only played it like 50+ times.
Oh man I want part 4!! I have enjoyed the game so much!
Was pretty interested right from the tutorial.
I really appreciated the choices about what to eat and buy. Mundane is fun, and my child self is really happy to be able to make choices they didn't get to.
It's also kinda therapeutic NOT having to make choices just to get a certain ending. I have a bad addiction to collecting endings, making choices I otherwise wouldn't, or thinking there's a "right" answer, so it's nice that there's no bad ending here. Sets the bar, honestly. I've played a lot of otoge and let's just say they kinda have a tendency to prime you for mind-reading and people-pleasing haha.
I guess the only things I have mixed feelings about are (spoiler) somebodyxbeingxfromxaxcertainxcountryx cuz it felt thrown out of nowhere...which, I guess, helped me feel even a fraction of that somebody's shock. I don't think that specific country (I'm from there btw) had to have foreshadowing. It's just something I'm used to.
The other thing is being asked about our character's body type, but I guess it could be more of a discomfort thing than being something bad. Plus, I'll admit I sometimes play for wish fulfillment, so there's that. Haha.
For the characters: Cove is adorable, I hope Derek has a happy life, and Baxter has a charm to him. I'd love a sister like Elizabeth and a neighbor like Mr. Holden.
The family dynamics are great. We may not know much about their lives outside of their interactions with the MCs (which would involve a lot more of writing and coding and art) but they already feel like 3D characters to me through the interactions.
Pretty cool to see familiar faces from your other game (spoiler). Xxxxxx is such a baby and I'm still as confused about him as before, but I do hope he lives a good life...which is another thing that's therapeutic about the game.
Meetings and partings and all sorts of valid ways to show affection and consent and ways to spend time by yourself or with other people. People pretty much have their own lives. It's great~ Finished 1st playthrough in 12 hours
Also: I played for the dating sim aspect (what can I say. chronic otoge player) but I really loved the childhood parts.
I finally have a childhood /j
Hi again. Just dropping by with a fan drawing I made :D Kyra, Cliff (background), and a character from another visual novel.
I made this sketch because I got "mom vibes" from both Delora and Kyra.
I grew fond of Mr. Holden as well, so even though I wanted to focus on the two, I decided to include him in the background, waving innocently. The fan story behind this is that Delora is frustrated that she lost in a card game.
(Drew another one recreating that scene where Jeremy picks on Cove's eyebrows, but it's not as pretty and I can't upload more than one image for some reason. Anyway~)
That's so lovely! Thank you for sharing it with us :D
I usually don't review games but this is something I've never seen before. It's amazing and it sets the bar for any visual novels I read in the future. I finished it in 4 days and I'm feeling content hungry for the DLCs that I'm hoping I can buy sometime soon. I'm excited to see what GBPatch does in the future, because I could splurge my money all day with this type of content lol. Great game.
Amazing visual novel, the writing it's super good and I was super invested right from the start
FDSJKGHSDGKDS THIS IS THE BEST visual novel I've ever played it has SUCH a special place in my heart :( I started playing back in 2019 and I've loved it ever since. it gives me great nostalgia and fills me with the best feelings :) everything about this is so perfect, thank you for sharing this amazing piece of art with us!
Can relate. The first visual novel I ever played was from 2017 and nothing ever replaced it (several routes, some locked, with changes in dialogues and events and even POV). But I still think Our Life tops it. Most games I'll admit are escapism to me (nothing wrong with escapism though) but Our Life made me appreciate real life and its uncertainties and changes more, if that makes sense. I still miss 2D characters after playing, but I don't feel so alone or dumped back in the real world now. Hahahaha.
Why is Cove's gender not something changeable? It seems odd to me that, a game touting such immense customizability with such an androgynous love interest (I looked at all the preview pictures here and didn't know he was a guy until the tutorial said it outright) would fail in a way many much lesser games have succeeded in
I hope this doesn't sound rude, but the point of Our Life is to let the player feel supported in their own choices/identities. That's what the customization is for. It'd really undercut the message that gender expression/sex is an important thing and we care about your experience with that if we also included the option to give boobs to the love interest somehow because it's just a game and who cares about gender presentation having to make sense. Cove only changes in small ways that are reasonable based on all the different possible experiences he can have growing up over many years. I totally get other games that do let you change the love interest in that way because the goal is more about players getting to date the kind of person they want. But OL isn't focused on that, it's purpose is players getting to be truly themselves in a world that's consistent and treats things in a generally grounded way. I hope that makes sense.
Oh yeah, it's not rude at all, it's more my bad than anything. I should've worded my comment a bit better because it was just meant as a question out of genuine curiosity, it doesn't bother me. I suppose it's just something I won't get as a straight and cis guy because to me it feels more accepting and more supportive of the message to have everything work out regardless of Cove's gender and that it would help people connect more with the game if they got to date within their preferences, but I digress. The game is still really great and I'm having a great time with it! It's much better than a decent amount of Otome games I've played and it thoroughly trounces almost every other non-Otome (is there a word for that?) VN I've plain
Thanks for understanding and the kind words! If it helps, Our Life is gonna be a series with future games having other gender LIs. We wanted to keep this first project focused on the one main love interest but eventually there will be an "Our Life" experience hopefully for everyone because it's true that having the option to date within your gender preference is very important. We've got a preview page up for next OL HERE. And a demo is gonna be out for it later this year.
dude this is GOOD good i wasn’t even expecting to like these kinds of things
Hey I wanted to ask I read that you can have Baxter in step 3 as a summer romance (outside of his dlc). I wanted to ask how exactly?
I'm sorry for the confusion, you do need the not-currently-released Baxter DLC in order to date him. The events included in the base version are Cove's story and Baxter is only a side character in all of them.
Aha okay thanks for the clarification.
No problem!
This is the best visual novel game I've ever played, it is so good and sets the bar way too high, like how should I play anything else after this one and not think about it and be satisfied with anything else? Impossible
This is such a good game I can't wait for the epilogue release and everything else you do with it!
This game has ruined visual novels and dating sims for me. It sets the bar way to high, and instead of toning things down, the devs keep making it better?! It's frankly pretty rude.
I love the game, it is so well written and the characters are so amazing. I like each of them. And I'm sooo hyped on step 4 and the DLCs for Derek and Baxter romances. I really love Baxter, I hope his DLC has a lot of content. ;)
Great game at first, but then I learned Cove is the only romance option, and the first part made me dislike him pretty strongly, so I stopped playing halfway into part 2. It feels weird being able to change so much about my character but so little about who they interact with.
Yeah, Cove is the only romance option so far, but if you wait than after the step 4 comes out, a two new romance options will also come out but as DLCs. So, please don't give up on the game yet, you don't have to even have Cove as a romance option, your MC and Cove can always be friends - that's a option too. But if you really dislike the game, I can't force you to play it.
hey GB something odd happened I had started up the game then out of no where it kicked out so I got to my file folder and discover that I guess the game files changed/corrupted or something
Do you know what caused this and if there's a way to reverse it or do i just have to download everything again
I'm sorry you're having issues! It's possible your computer removed or quarantined the OurLife.exe. Sometimes Python (the programming language we use) games get false flagged as dangerous and the computer can just delete it/make it inaccessible. Seeing if you can make the program a trusted file or redownloading the build could help. Your save files should still be there once things are working again.
this game was amazing!! i blew right through it and the development between the mc and cove is so beautiful and sweet, not to mention the art and the soundtrack are both spectacular!! it is genuinely shocking to me how it is FREE for anyone to play LMAO i am PUMPED for all the new DLCs tho keep it up guys!!
Is it possible to romance a female character?
In Our life:beginnings and always you can not. There are only three characters that MC can fall in love with and those are all male. But the GBpatch team is working on a second Our life game in which there will be a female character that MC can fall for. If you go to their page to see their other games, you can easily find it, but not even the demo is out yet.
Sorry I have a question, Derek's DLC is out?
has step 4 come out yet? i saw some people post about it, and when i googled it to confirm it said it had.
No, it's still in development
Is it possible to have a relationship with other characters? (That aren't Cove)
This is honestly the best game I've played so far. I really liked both the storyline and the style, there was moments where it made me cry,but holy sh*. Really enjoyed it and can't wait for step 4 :D<3 !!
1-3 is where you tell Cove about the $20 his dad offered to pay you in Step 1, In the episode where you Cove and Shiloh are building sandcastles. I think 2-3 is the same thing, but in Step 2. Basically, choosing to tell Cove about the $20 in...I think it's the Dinner episode?
If you tell him in one Step, you don't get the option again later, obviously. So, I'd recommend making a save before telling him in Step 1, then once you've got the scene and the CG, loading that save and not telling him, then tell him later in Step 2.
Anyway, you don't have to stress too much if you were worried about the outcome of telling him earlier. I won't spoil but, if you need assurance, it all turns okay, even if it doesn't seem start that way :)
um im not sure why this keeps happening to me but in step 2 when they ask what instrument you play and you get to type your own instrument, when you choose one instrument from the list but also type your own instrument in it just shows that you play the instrument from the list twice.
I LOVE this game its addicting! I can't wait for step 4.
also, I'm for sure gonna get DLCs, but I need to get some money for that haha..
So just wondering mc Is always a girl?
You can use any pronouns and later say if u were afab or amab
okay thanks
Ok uhm, I downloaded this game at 1am and I've been playing for over 6 hours. This is the best sim game I've ever played and all the scenarios and the little details are just perfect. I really thank the creators 'cause they couldn't do a better job than this: it's just the best.
I made a mistake,, I bought all DLCs through stream so I bought it again here but when playing OF here, all my saves from steam came here.. does that mean I bought all the DLC twice?? T.T
I'm sorry for that! Can you try to get a refund on Steam? The info is saved on your computer, so playing the Steam or Itch version will have the same saves.